29 August 2014
The enthusiasm of everyone at the grafting days has been fantastic and in particular the people who gone off searching out the old orchards in their districts, a lot of people are having interesting finds. During the grafting circuit I came across a bag of scion just titled "Unidentified old apple" Without much thought I just stuck it in with the apples S-Z (U for unidentified, where else would you put it?) Soon a second bag of Unidentified apples appeared and then a third and next thing I know here I am sitting down grafting when all these different unidentified apples turn up to be grafted an all going out as unidentified apples.
So, lets say whoever put in the second lot of unidentified apple gets it identified as a Wiffleman's Pippin next summer when it flowers, what do we do? Well all we can do is put a post on the Facebook site saying one of the lots of unidentified apples was a Wiffleman's Pippin and none of the people who took one of the unidentified apples knows if it was theirs.
So, we need a standardised system.
First, can we standardise the use of three initials of the donor on any scion bag, or in the event of two people having the same three initials the second person to enter the system is ABC2 or whatever their three initials are.
I've always maintained that no body has ;the same initials as me (NB- no body) then Neville Burley started putting in his stuff with NB on it.
Also we need a standardised system for the roadside and other seedlings that it is great to see coming in also.
Can I suggest that if anyone puts something in the system from an old orchard or similar that has lost it's original name then they give it a name, perhaps the family name of the owners, owners at the time of planting or a property name or location and that name has a # beside it on the scion bag and any lists or if it gets into the H&RFN list on our website, Also it comes into the system with the three initials of the donor.
Then can I suggest that any scion from a roadside or other seedling have (S) after the name and also on any lists, (except Traf Prince which you have all surely heard of by now)
What are your thoughts?
Carolyn Payne-Gemmell Coordinates? and the persons name need to go with the scion where ever it travels, so the finders need to stay responsible for the scion until it is identified, or proven it has worth and then named.
Carolyn Payne-Gemmell And a common place, easily accessible for everyone to register the details, so people can check in and add things over time too.
Neil Barraclough Perhaps a separate file on the H&RFN website Carolyn for both seedlings and "discoveries"?
.Neville Burley Coordinates can be a little difficult as not everyone has a GPS
Kym Stroud Smith Sounds very reasonable. With all the gps apps eg google earth it would be pretty easy to find the coordinates to reasonable accuracy even from a street address
Scott Hitchins Maybe the 'Discoverer' could have temporary naming rights (ideally something that reflected location) this would be easy to put on the tag and a general email or fb post would tell any purchasers of the true name, if it was ever found: Eagle Point star being a good example.
30 August at 09:01 · Like · 3
Alexandra TerrorToma Supertramp Kym, I'm not sure how reliable that would be - just from geocaching in Woodend I had quite a bit of trouble getting accurate gps coordinates at times as it relies on the ability to get coverage. I guess it really depends what area you are looking in.
Neville Burley I agree with Alexandra TerrorToma Supertramp not just that, I have found a few already and don't have any form of GPS, we are also in a poor signal area if not near Sale so I think the GPS is asking a bit much.
Angela Downey Melways references are generally pretty acceptable with other organisations.
Carolyn Payne-Gemmell I guess I am really referring to a grid reference, longitude and latitude, something that you can find on a map, I guess an address would work, but in some cases that is really impractical too, as there is no address to be had. Here is a scenario, and I am happy for any suggestions for how to label them. I was told about an old abandoned orchard that is in the middle of a corporate owned blue gum plantation, I guess the address is Iron Pot Creek Road Warrack, but then I would still have to tell everyone how to drive in there to get to it. There are 24 trees in varying stages of decline, a terminal decline as they are severely damaged by deer browsing, there was probably 100 or more trees and I can see the remains of 8 rows of different apple trees with up to 14 or so in each row. I have made up a simple grid of positions that relate to the rows alphabetically , so have labeled them A, B, C etc and have assumed the missing spaces numbered 1 to 14, some rows only have one live tree, so there is A3, B5, but a lot of Cs, C2, C3, C6, C7, C11, C12, C13, and so on. I am hopeful of catching a few apples on some of the taller ones so I will be able to id some this season and others probably years, as all the scion I took from row G is end stage for the tree. For anyone who gets some of this scion in the future once we id a row we will know all the Cs are Five Crown or something, but in the mean time what am I supposed to call the whole orchard if not name it simply by its longitude and latitude ?
Ty Stryk Neil, yes I agree that we should have a standardized method for new scions because just calling them 'unknown' with no other identifying details ends up a bit useless, as you pointed out.
I also like your suggestion about identifying seedlings or discoveries marked with a # and think that an easy to access and add-to form is a very good way to centralize, share and update the knowledge about any new of these new varieties/discoveries...
I think perhaps that as long as the scions are named so they are identifiable from all others (like 'Anderson's Old'), then I think it'd work well if the finder has naming rights and keeps a good personal record of where and when it was sourced.
As long as that variety's name is unique and consistent, then even if it is later identified as a known variety or other details arise, such as pollination, vigor, fruit description, fruiting month etc, then everyone would have access via the website table/form, as suggested above.
I've recently taken scions from a few local old trees on friends' properties and have named them as related to their original location - such as 'Yilpinji Yellow', 'Toolangi Two', or 'Bozo Red' (this name requested by my friend's nephews lol).
I think it matters less about it's gps (unless it's a tree easily accessible to others to collect fruit from; or unless there's a chance it's scion may also be sourced by others resulting in a double-up) ....and more that whatever it does get named, that the naming of it is uniquely identifiable and consistently maintained so records can be updated.
I've also found that the discovery story becomes such an important part of a variety's (historical) story and, I believe, seems to make heritage apples more relatable & therefore desirable to the general public. From the old Blenheim Orange to the newer Silcocks and Prince Traf, these stories are important for us to record.
Angela Enbom It's great to see that the effort to not only gather and graft old varieties is happening but also that records are being kept
Kym Stroud Smith I believe a smartphone has GPS metadata included for photos. Certainly I've used that where I have no phone or internet service. To extract it though, you might need an app. Just a thought.
Neville Burley Some of us don't have smart phones, and are the ones tat have done quite some gathering, the Andersons Old mentioned earlier is a tree I saved as it is now dead. I have no gps whatsoever but know exactly where the tree is. If one can include it maybe that's good too but I don't believe we need to make it impossible for those that can't IMHO
Neil Barraclough Also we need to think of the person maintaining the file on the discoveries and not make it too complex.